John Petry
John Petry
2012-12-03 21:26:12
Debt Collector
I just received a call from some bozo calling me from the Jeffry Young Law Firm in Orange County.  The claim was similar - that there was a lawsuit and they would send the police after me if I did not send in some money.  First I have been an attorney for 32 years and I do not have any lawsuits pending against me.  Second, the police do not arrest people in these situations.  Totally bogus.  Third Jeff Young is a lawyer in Santa Barbara and I called his firm and asked them.  They said they had nothing to do with this caller.  If someone calls do not take their word on stuff like this.  It is all illegal and they are criminals.
2012-05-07 22:07:03
Debt Collector
Got the call. I saved message. I called back, and lady started talking, saying I owed money, that I had committed some type of checking account fraud. That police were coming tomorrow. I asked her name. She hung up. I called back, and constantly being hung up on. Said she was with Jennifer Young Law Firm. Then I checked on line to see all the posts about this being a scam.
2012-03-17 22:26:59
Debt Collector
Received a voicemail this morning at 7:30am. As everyone knows this is illegal. Very difficult to understand and the voice sounded Indian. He said that either I or my attorney of record needed to call this number today because the information was extremely time sensitive. He said if I or my attorney do not call, all he can say is "good luck" as the situation unfolds on you. Danny Morris. Don't disregard this message.
Sad but True
Sad but True
2011-12-23 15:13:46
This is an offshore payday loan debt collection extortion scam that has been going on for at least five years. The FBI is aware of it but is unable to go after those involved due to lack of money and manpower. I looked back and found some old information which may prove to be helpful:

They obtained your information through Teletrack:

Kudos to "Sam" for giving the most intelligent and informative posts on this scam. READ, Bookmark and use as needed:


I have been receiving phone calls from this group since late April / early May of 2010.  There is a good chance that they also attempted to contact me roughly two years ago before I entered into Chapter 7 Bankruptcy protection, as I faintly remember hearing the same script more or less.

As others have stated, the callers are difficult to understand.  Generally speaking their command of the English language is quite poor and their accents are hard to follow. At times they will get certain words or phrases mixed up.  It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that they had:

a) Your SSN
b) Your home address
c) Your work address
d) Your banking info
e) Names, numbers and potentially the addresses of "references"
f) A complete and total lack of ethics and a basic understanding of the FDCPA.  

I have personally filed reports with the following agencies, often with limited (if any) success:

Local Police
my state's Attorney General's office
Secret Service

Generally the local police won't be able to help much.  The callers are using a combination of prepaid cell phones and VoIP, making them difficult to trace.  Also at their disposal are various spoofing tactics being implemented to catch people off guard - meaning the number that appears on your Caller ID isn't the number that is calling you for starters.  Without gaining a subpoena for the billing information for the numbers in question, the local police won't be able to get very far.  

My state's Attorney General's office couldn't offer much assistance either.  I received a form letter in the mail that my complaint was received and I would be contacted if they needed additional info.  It was more or less the same information I obtained from the FTC.  They each advised me not to give the individuals over the phone any account information or to authorize payment.  That's just common sense, though.

I never got anything from the FBI, either.  There is a good chance that since I haven't suffered a monetary loss that my concerns are low on the totem pole.  I hate to say this, but that is truly the case. Unless you were in the hole for a $1,000 (or more) you aren't going to get much more than "sorry to hear about your situation, change your phone number and move on".  I seemed to get some activity from the Secret Service.  I spoke with agent Doug Zloto. (Google him, referencing threads like these plus his name and you'll find his number also)  He seemed to care a bit more than the average person, but after giving him access to my Google Voice account, there has been no further activity from him that I'm aware of.

In the meantime I changed the wireless number the fraudsters had access to, they have no direct way to get a hold of me.  (Calls at work have ceased for some reason)  That in turn resulted in my "references" getting phone calls from the crooks.  Here is a word of caution for women that have been getting these calls - don't say anything and just hang up.  The callers are quite abusive towards women callers.  Why?  Possibly the culture.  If they are Indian / Pakistani, women are second class citizens there.  You will be treated like garbage.  This happened to a family member when she was trying her best to be extremely nice over the phone.  

The callers currently attempt to reach me through the female family member and an unused Google Voice number that they managed to find of mine.  I keep the Google Voice number open because, well, I can't delete it yet.  So, about every day, 4-5 times a day for the last week, I get voice messages from them.  It's usually just two full messages though - the other calls are broken up with static or they are attempts to read the script until the callers then screw up.  Really, they are that adamant on getting the script 100% that they will hang up mid-sentence and call back 30 seconds later.  

At this point it's a stalemate with these people.  

1) While they have the lion's share of information on us, they can't really do anything with this information.  

Why?  Think about it.

If they were to ever take funds out of your account without authorization, it's fraud and worse (for them) it is traceable.  That's why they won't do anything with your information, contrary to threats they make.  The money from your account has to go somewhere, and either your bank or a law enforcement agency can determine where the money was routed.  As a bank customer you are protected - you'd get the stolen money back in your account after 7-10 business days and the bank would be temporarily out the funds deducted from your account while they conducted their investigation.  The bank, along with law enforcement, would track down the fraudsters and apprehend them.  The fraudsters do not want to incur the wrath of a bank, just extort money out of you.  Remember that.    

Your authorization would absolve the bank from any and all liability, leaving you holding the bag.  Never give them authorization for anything - for all you know the call is recorded.  

2) We have no information on them.

Seriously, this has been going on at least since 2008, possibly longer than that based on some accounts. (6 years??? Holy crap!)  You would think someone would have slipped up by now.  Sadly, they haven't.  We can continue to grow our own intel on them and compile lists of aliases and phone numbers used, along with paraphrases of scripts used in order to educate other victims.  I'm actually putting together a site now in the meantime where I'll host audio files and lists of previous numbers used.  800notes.com is great, but no two calls are exactly the same.  It would be nice to have a site dedicated to the scam and how it works.

So that's where I am with these calls.  I have suffered no monetary loss, though I have been harassed both at home and at work.  They threaten me with arrest and other "fun" things in order to get me convinced I have to pay them.  My friends and family have been targeted and local and federal law enforcement agencies haven't been able to put a stop to things.  So, it is what it is.  I am out a wireless phone number I had for roughly six years, which is terrible since I was using that line when looking for a new job.  

Whenever I'm bored I spoof my number using Google Voice and return the calls.  I've called them the poster children for birth control, etc.  Basically a lot of nasty things that I'm sure the moderators here wouldn't appreciate me repeating - bottom line nothing nice.  I always like to close saying their parents must be real proud knowing their sons weren't man enough to get real jobs.  That usually gets a decent response.  

Way I see it - they can't do anything to me. (Despite a threat yesterday that my life would be f'ed up)  They can threaten all they want but my credit is frozen and my bank information has changed.  I've changed the only number they could really access me directly on and I've instructed my employer and family to not answer the calls.  I just call and harass them now when I find a few extra seconds.  What's the worst they can do to me?  Charge me with harassment?  

Nope, then they would have to identify themselves.

Oh, and don't bother contacting Cashnet USA about the calls.  Their "fraud" department could honestly care less.  Their "investigation" is merely a means of buerocratic CYA.  I would even be surprised at this point if actual law enforcement is involved in any shape, way or form at this time.  

There is a good chance that the information these crooks have on us was obtained from Cashnet USA - either from a database leak or from a collector that was once authorized by Cashnet to call on delinquent customers.  The other chance is they have access to Teletrack, and pulled all of our information off of there.


For at least the last four years, possibly longer, a group has been calling former payday loan applicants advising them that they have defrauded a bank and are now being sued for non-payment of a loan.  The callers will claim to be calling on behalf of an attorney's office (name varies), the Dept. of Law and Investigation, ACS, or other similar combinations below:

United Legal Processing Division
Midline Marketing
Crime Monitoring Services
Monetary Crime Division
U.S. National Bank
Attorney General?s Office (usually in California)
American Legal Services
Affidavit Consolidation Services (ACS)

You will be threatened with arrest, a costly trial and possibly worse.  In no shape, way or form can you be arrested for non-payment on a consumer debt.  Do not believe these threats, as they are without merit and cannot be carried out in the manner they allege.  

Who are they?

In the past when pressed by law enforcement for an address, the callers have provided the following information:

David Morgan and Associates
Morgan & Associates
Morgan Associates
1155 Northwest 85th Street
Wintergarden, Florida  33150
(Address is likely invalid)

The collector's MO matches a once legit collections agency called Ellis Crosby & Associates.  Here are some links on them:


They have been previously fined over $1.3 million for various violations.  They have been known to use phone banks in India to make their calls, which more or less coincides with the difficult to understand accent many of us detect when we are contacted.  

The last time this group went by any "official" name was back in 2008:

Ellis Crosby & Associates / Douglas & Morgan Associates
4494 Southside Boulevard Suite #200
Jacksonville Florida 32216
Phone:  800-928-3536 / (904) 928-3536
(Address is likely invalid)

There are NUMEROUS consumer alerts out against this group of individuals:



http://www.coloradoattorneygeneral.gov/press/ ... lls_likely_orig

Rhode Island:  
http://www.collectionscreditrisk.com/news/rho ... -3002135-1.html

West Virginia:

On July 15th, 2010 a Public Awareness Bulletin was sent out by Missouri Information Analysis Center.  

"..received reports from individuals in Ohio and Illinois reference suspicious telephone calls they received. In both instances, the callers are reporting that a voicemail is received from a man, with a Middle Eastern accent, identifying himself as an officer working with the Financial Crimes Unit.  The message indicates that the reason for the call concerns a loan made by the receiver or someone in the receiver's family. The voicemail requests that a return call be made and a telephone number is provided. When a return call is made, the caller is asked to provide personal identifying information such as their date of birth and social security number.

Reports indicate that the calls are frequent and persistent and that they even threaten arrest or legal action if information or money is not provided. It appears that the individuals making these calls may have access to some records connecting individuals and their relatives.  Missouri does not have a Financial Crimes Unit and all indications are that this is a fictitious agency. If you receive a similar phone call, please be advised that it is a scam and please contact your local law enforcement agency or the Missouri Information Analysis Center at 866-362-6422."

Bottom line:

Do not supply the callers with any additional information.  Inform them you have reported them to law enforcement and hang up.  If you haven't already, go ahead and report the calls to local law enforcement, your state's Attorney General and beyond.  Look up the local Secret Service branch's information in your area and get in contact with an agent there.  

If you ever applied for a cash advance online, your information is out there.  
Possible sources for the breach of your privacy are:

* The scammers obtained your information from Teletrack - a reporting agency used by many cash advance lenders to determine their risk lending to you.  The service is able to tell cash advance lenders if you have existing loans with other companies, for example.  Many state laws prohibit borrowers from having more than two cash advances out at the same time.

* The scammers created their own fake payday loan application site.  People looking for a cash advance went to the site and applied, thus freely providing the scammers with their information for malicious use at a later time.  

* The scammers were able to get into the database(s) of cash advance lenders - probable targets being Sonic Payday and Cashnet USA.  

How to protect yourself:

* Inform your employer.  You are likely getting calls at home and/or at work, so make sure your employer is aware the calls are part of a scam and to not take them seriously.  Advise the callers that they are no longer allowed to call you at work.  If they continue to call, document the date and time of the calls you received.  Save voice mails left if at all possible.  

* Change your number(s).  For some this may not be an option, for others a one-time number change can be done free of charge.

Be advised - any references you listed on your payday loan application will be contacted.  Let those people know that this is a scam, and they can disregard.

* Use Google Voice.  Google Voice is a great replacement voice mail system for just about any phone number you use.  Messages can be transcribed and voice mail recordings can be saved as mp3 files.  

Pro Tip - call the scammers with a Google Voice number before turning off your old phone numbers.  Make sure when you call you identify yourself so they can start up their script.  At any point after they have your information pulled up just hang up.  They will then start religiously calling your Google Voice number.  At this point, you are free to change your regular phone number(s) and enjoy not having these people ever call you again.  (And laugh at the fact these people are basically talking to a brick wall several times a day)

The scammers change their numbers frequently.  Law enforcement used to think it was because the callers ran out of minutes on their prepaid wireless accounts or they were shuttered due to fraud, but now they understand it's simply to evade detection by savvy consumers online.  With the proliferation of VoIP, it's even easier for the crooks to stay a couple of steps ahead of law enforcement.  Below is just a sampling of the 30+ numbers that have been used in recent memory.


So can they really do anything to you?

It's not a simple yes or no answer.  Logic dictates that, if they really wanted to take you for a ride and drain your bank accounts, they already would have.  

So, why haven't they?  


Why do you think you are being called so much?  Perhaps it is because they like the sound of your voice?  No, they have to have your authorization to take any form of payment from you, period.  The callers know their audience, and that audience is typically a bunch of people that have applied for payday loans in the past.  Most of those people they call couldn't afford an attorney if they wanted one, and are so used to receiving collections calls that so long as they sound like a real collector, they will likely be perceived as one.

Furthermore, they don't even really want to talk to your attorney - that just sounds official and scary enough.  A real attorney would take the callers to task and write them off as two-bit con artists.  The callers need you, in writing, to authorize payment against the fictitious debt they claim you owe.  Go ahead, ask them for proof you owe the debt - more commonly known as verification of debt.  See what they say.  A phone authorization carries very little weight, so if they have something signed by you on file, you are done for - and the callers know that.  That authorization is the only thing these callers are doing by the book, and for good reason.  If they just went all willy nilly and made an ACH debit from your checking account, without your written approval, you could in turn report the transaction as fraudulent to your financial institution.  In about 7-10 business days, you would get the funds returned to your account.  Then the scammers would be up against a bank and their team of lawyers and investigators.  

Bottom line:

If you haven't paid the callers a dime, don't.  If you planned on paying them to shut them up, just don't.  Remember - you are not being contacted by a legally licensed, ethically owned and operated collector.  Read up on the FDCPA - http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre27.pdf - and know your rights.

PS--The FBI sent out a Press Release on this scam just last week:

Extortion Scam Related to Delinquent Payday Loans

Washington, D.C.
December 07, 2010  FBI National Press Office
(202) 324-3691

? filed under: Press Release

The Internet Crime Complaint Center has received many complaints from victims of payday loan telephone collection scams. Callers claim the victim is delinquent in a payday loan and must repay the loan to avoid legal consequences. The callers purport to be representatives of the FBI, Federal Legislative Department, various law firms, or other legitimate-sounding agencies. They claim to be collecting debts for companies such as United Cash Advance, U.S. Cash Advance, U.S. Cash Net, and other Internet check-cashing services.

According to complaints received from the public, the callers have accurate data about victims, including Social Security numbers, dates of birth, addresses, employer information, bank account numbers, and the names and telephone numbers of relatives and friends. How the fraudsters obtained the personal information varies, but in some cases victims have reported they completed online applications for other loans or credit cards before the calls started.

The fraudsters relentlessly call the victim?s home, cell phone, and place of employment. They refuse to provide any details about the alleged payday loans and become abusive when questioned. The callers have threatened victims with legal actions, arrests, and, in some cases, physical violence if they do not pay. In many cases, the callers harass victims? relatives, friends, and employers.

Some fraudsters have instructed victims to fax a statement agreeing to pay a certain amount, on a specific date, via a pre-paid Visa card. The statement further declares the victim will never dispute the debt.

If you receive these calls, do not follow the caller?s instructions. Rather, you should:

Notify your banking institutions.
Contact the three major credit bureaus and request an alert be put on your file.
Contact your local law enforcement agencies if you feel you are in immediate danger.
File a complaint at www.IC3.gov.
Tips to avoid becoming a victim of this scam:

Never give your Social Security number?or personal information of any kind?over the telephone or online unless you initiate the contact.
Be suspicious of any e-mail with urgent requests for personal financial information. The e-mail may include upsetting or exciting but false statements to get you to react immediately.
Avoid filling out forms in e-mail messages that request personal information.
Ensure that your browser is up-to-date and security patches have been applied.
Check your bank, credit, and debit card statements regularly to make sure that there are no unauthorized transactions. If anything looks suspicious, contact your bank and all card issuers.
When you contact companies, use numbers provided on the back of cards or statements


2011-12-23 15:06:10

kim wade
kim wade
2011-11-26 18:46:23
Debt Collector
Received a call from an Hindu speaking gentleman that he was calling from Jennifer Yound Law offices, stating that I owed money for a pay day loan I did not take out.  He stated that the Sherriff would be @ my place of employment to arrest me for non payment and I would have to retain an Criminal Attorney.  He had all my information, I called him back he called me racial names told me shut the F*** Up and listen, it was a war of words no one professional would speak that way conducting business I had my Attorney call them and they hung up on him also.  This is another number to watch for below that are the same people.
be be
be be
2011-10-28 23:30:28
Lmao i just had that same call. I laughed in the guys face. He asked me do I understand english. i told him he could barley speak it so why is he asking me such a question, And told me I won't be laughing once the police come to my house and my job. I told him that he was a idiot and you can't file a law suit from another state. Then I had another few words for him. I knew right off the bat that it was a scam. So all i could do was laugh.
Julie Newell
Julie Newell
2011-10-20 16:48:23
Debt Collector
I rcvd a phone call from a Jennifer Young Law Firm today at 626-384-3257 from a Michael stating that someone is pressing charges against me and that I Need to call Kevin Peterson right back at the same number to find out who and why I am being charged.

Hung up and called right back!  Asked for Kevin Peterson and how convenient - Kevin Peterson just left for court.  Person asked who I was and I told him and I asked what the heck is going on.  I have not rcvd any calls, mail, crt notices that I am being charged.  The person on the line stated "you will be served a summons and complaint tomorrow (10/21/2011) at your home and work.  They knew where I worked and I just started here.  He simply hung up and would not let me say anything.

I tried to call the number back and it just keeps hanging up.  This has got to be a scam!!  Receiving this type of call at work can really freak a person out.
you know
you know
2011-10-20 02:00:26
All these companies are the same you owe a payday loan, i get calls all day long, i think it has to do with a online data base and they go thru a comapny called magic talk, i figured it out, i did some investigating and honestly its all scams.......
2011-10-06 15:27:35
they aren't debt collectors they are scammers. I knew it was scam as soon as I heard "The HOTLINE to reach me at---"
2011-10-04 15:48:48
Trying to find a number for Attorney Jennifer Young if anybody can help
2011-10-03 15:31:40
I got this phone call just this weekend but the tune has changed. He now is saying that someone is suimng you for child support and that he needs my attorney's name and contact info. I challenged this and told him since his harassment is crossing state lines it is a matter for the FBI and I was turning all the info over to them. He hung up quickly.
2011-09-30 20:26:36
Prank Call
Everyone--this is a scam.  You can not be arrested for owing money to someone, that's not a crime.  The police aren't bill collectors, and they're not interested in who you owe money to.  They called me and gave me the speech about this "urgent matter" and wished me the best of luck.  When I called back and they said they'd send the police, I told them I was a state trooper and they hung up on me.  The fake names are funny, the guy who called me was Mike Reed or something like that. Sounded like he was from India or Pakistan.
2011-09-30 01:08:12
I received the same call. They called my part time job work place and same that they were calling from Johnson Smith Law office. The Asian person who anwered the phone was very arrogant. He stated that I have to settle a pay day loan that I took. He said that I would be arrested on Monday. I told him that he will be the one to be arrested. The number is California Number, Fullerton. It is a Land line. We need to have these people arrested.
From NJ
In Ahhh
In Ahhh
2011-09-29 20:14:00
I just recieved a call from the same number, same person. This is awful.  I do know where my/your information could have been obtained, from applying for something and then the personal information passed on to 3rd partied, this is crazy and especially @ work.  SMH Just awful.
2011-09-29 20:11:37
Alex Watson called a local business today demanding to speak to an employee.  However, he ended up speaking with a different employee whom basically stated NOT to call our offices again.  He continued to call the employee's cell phone and the employees place of employment.  After many calls of harassment and not getting his way he then called a different employee a (bxxxx).  As ignorant as the calls were we received a saved voicemail of this person talking to another person and harassing them about going to get a prepaid walmart card....well the other person on the other end of the phone demanded documention of the bill that was due at hand.....You could here the background where Alex is making these calls and it was apparently a call center....He then proceeded to speak in another language to a fellow member of his crew and was laughing over the placed call he had just made harassing another person.  This is a scam, a business of lyers and cheats that are taking advantage of innocent people and harassing them at their places of employment.  It is really pathetic and sad that people are willing to be as low as Alex Watson or whatever the heck this person's name ishicobobbbud dadeeedee LOL
2011-09-29 15:54:09
Debt Collector
I am an Office Manager Tennessee and one of my employees received a call from this man. He said his name was Sam Watson. He called our on call service and told them he was needing to speak someone about my employees legal matter. He had all her info and her sisters name. She is so embarrassed about it. He called her every name you could imagine. When he did call my company his name was Cliff. She did call the police and called her bank. Everyone watch for this guy.
2011-09-28 20:54:13
Opps I put my message to Bounty Hunter, didnt know I wasnt at the end of replies.  See Sept. 5th.  This happened to me today Sept.  28th.  Still feeding on people.  Im calling my bank and the local PD.
2011-09-28 20:43:24
I posted this today Sept. 28, 2011.   Only came up as "21 Minutes Ago".   So I wonder if anything can or will be done to stop this.   I feel better now.  I meant what I said about loans online.  NEVER again.
2011-09-28 20:14:39
Iam so relieved to see this is some kind of scam.  I got a call today from this guy saying if I did not call Alex Watson at Danny Young Law Firm today at (714) 441-5860 they would proceed with the Legal Charges against me.  I told him what charges, I have no charges.  He told me he was only a paralegal and could not go into it, he wasnt authorized.  I told him I do not have long distance (the truth) so Alex Watson would have to call me.  Then he got rather harsh sounding and told me if I did not call today they would proceed with charges.  I said Mr. Watson would have to send me a letter then.   Then he hung up.   I was so angry I had my Mom look up the area code (Anaheim, Calf.).   Then she googled something and this came up.  Why cant the Feds.  shut this thing down?  That is all Ive got.  Relax, breath.   I will never look up anything to do with loans on the internet again.   Ive learned my lesson.
2011-09-28 15:19:08
Debt Collector
Got a call from this number and the Middle Eastern man's name is John or Josh Smith....REALLY?  Left me a message on voice mail that I or my attorney needs to contact him immediately, today.  Said that if I didn't that he could only tell me that the downfall as the situation unfolds will not be good.  Got me a little nervous, then I googled the number and here I see that it is just what I thought it was.  So now I am waiting for more calls so that I can record them.
Thanks for all of the postings so that I know what to do!
2011-09-28 13:05:07
Prank Call
I got a call today from this # 714 441 5860 it was one of these Indian parasites, stating that if he ddidnt hear from my attorney they would pay me a visit that I wouldnt like, I told him to come on down that I will be waiting for the visit and that if he wanted to see his disgusting homeland again to rethink twice before making the trip to see me. All these parasites from India/pakistan must be caught but it is likely that they wont because the Govt of this country supports them.
2011-09-27 22:36:41
My son has been having this problem. I put a phone block on my phone number, made a police report about it and will call the Fair Trade Commission. Also, we need protect our credit by placing an alert on our accounts. These are scammers and can be anywhere in the world. They cannot threaten with arrests etc., for debt! Tell them to get lost.
Camellia C
Camellia C
2011-09-27 22:16:17
Alex Watson is the person that kept calling me. Over and over. He threatened me with court and jail time plus garnishing my social security check. He knew my social security number and alot of other valuable info. He had me in tears. Don't even listen to anything these people have to say.
2011-09-27 17:36:26
O yes the man is out of the office and his name is Steven Collins!
2011-09-27 17:35:04
Yes the same thing happing to me and telling me they are sending the police after me and they are coming to get me!!  every time I call back I can not get through and they wanted to know my business! they are saying they are a law firm and are going to get me and need to pay them today !!!  today they need payment and they can not do any thing they need my debit card ##  Things are bad and now we have people calling telling me this and police is going to come to my business and get me!!!  I work on my own I do not need this!!!
Michael Dukes
Michael Dukes
2011-09-26 18:27:52
Debt Collector
This gentleman keeps callimng my home and job and have never taken any loan out with him. I need this to stop. He is trying to get money from me.
lisa rojas
lisa rojas
2011-09-24 21:45:56
These people are calling me liying about a ss they have on file.  Asking me about a loan I never took out I have made a police report
deanna yeoman
deanna yeoman
2011-09-23 14:25:02
oh when i called back it was like they were picking up and hanging it i could hear stuff in the background but no one would answer..... who r they? now i dont have a job anymore
deanna yeoman
deanna yeoman
2011-09-23 14:23:53
This number is calling my work and called 6 times in a row , i lost my job now and i have no idea who they are.I tried to call back because i wasn't there when they called. They threatened my boss and said if she was hiding me they would have her arrested ????? What the heck!!!!!
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