I get at least 5 calls a day from "Eric Turner" who speaks with a heavy Indian accent. He makes a threat of this being an important legal matter, threatens my credit standing saying it is very time sensitive, and he even states the last four digits of my social security number. No mention of money owed on the messages but mentions an important legal matter several times as well as lawsuit and legal actions. I work for a nationwide company and am not aware of work calls that are made but these calls need to stop, they are threatening, vague and in my line of work they are a safety issue when they are constantly calling throughout the day.

This number has called us 20 times in a row!!  Will not allow us to conduct our business because he will not stop calling.  We asked that he not harass our Department and that he reach his client at home.  He stated that he didn't care and that he would keep calling back all day and he has.  How can we stop this harassment.  The number is 804-318-5476.

Had a call from a mr. ray from dff (804) 318-5473 called me at work and they are pretty ballsley cause im a public safety officer and told me i have a warrent for my arresst i then said o yea come get me then ill wait for u at my local police station which i filed a report with which notthing came of it so pretty much change your number or have a little fun with them i get them so mad they hang up on me wish the best of luck to all of you guys hope they catch these guys

the company name is DFF they keep calling up were I work for one of our people and calls on all lines he speaks broken english and is a pain in the ____

started getting calls yesterday from these indian people. he called me back today 35 times and when i did'nt answer my phone, he kept calling my boss. on the verge of losing my job if he does'nt stop. i answered and asked him for his address. he told me his address is not my concern and that, paying my debt is. i told him to send me proof in the mail. he said they dont do that. i told him to take me to court because my lawyer has been contacted for harrassment by you. hasn'ty called me in an hour but, my attorney has the info.

Caller identifies himself as Luke Martin and he calls from this number: 804-318-5476
Here is the enduser's report:
We have a guy who keeps calling asking for {an employee} and says he is a bill collector. He does  not speak english well.  He's called several times before and today he is calling over and over again. He told me that if I did not let him talk to {our employee} he would call back every 10 minutes. The last conversation he asked me if I looked like Angelina Jolie. Then asked me if I knew who JLO was and asked me if I would drop it low. Then he wanted me to sing a Katty Perry song to him.He said if I would sing to him he would never call back. I hung up on him then he called right back and said I just want you to sing me one song. I have asked this guy nicely, and rudely, not to call back and that he is harassing us and he still calls.  Human Resources answered one time this morning, and asked to talk to his Supervisor, at which point he started cussing at her using the f-word. Can you please see if IT has a way to block this guys phone number? This is really interrupting our work flow over here.

Threats of job loss and imprisonment, barely speaks english (heavy indian accent) and says his name is eric turner. constant calls and harassment!!

Very rude and continued to call back over and over asking for one of our employees that works in the field.  I informed him/her? (very difficult to understand) to call our employee at home for personal matters.  Incredibly rude and told me to listen and that our company would be in very big trouble if I didnt take a message.  I SAID DO NO FCALL HERE AND TO CALL THE EMPLOYEE AT HOME FOR PERSONAL MATTERS!

A Ben Rogers with DFF OR DFS ( he has said both) keep calling me saying I defaulted on a payday loan and warrants are issued. I never had a loan! Will not send anything stating who I owe. Calls me hundreds of times a day back to back calls and now is calling my job! This needs to stop.

yES I GOT THE SAME CALLS FROM A MICHAEL FROM DFF.  HE SOUNDED INDIAN AND EVERYTHING THAT IS POSTED ON HERE, THEY DID TO ME AND I FOLLOWED EVERYTHING THEY SAID BUT I CHECKED MY BANK STATEMENTS AND THERE WAS NO DEPOSIT SO NOW I PUT  A STOP TO THAT ACCOUNT BUT I FAXED THEM MY INFO THAT THEY NEEDED FROM ME.  I CALLED THE FBI AND POLICE AND REPORTED IT FOR SCAM. AND ALERTED MY CREDIT BUREAU.  I WAS STUPID TO FOLLOW THEIR DIRECTIONS.  PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THEM THAT CHANCE WITH YOU GUYS.

They called me every second like 20 times even called my job!

This people can not reach me on my cell since I changed the number because of them so now they call my work and harrasing my boss and colleagus here. It makes me look bad and I had being doubted because of these idiots.
They try to scare me with everything they got, Court, Jail etc.
At this point it bothers me because they keep calling my work and my Boss is not thrilled about this and it makes me look bad.
If I knew how I could nail these guys I would.

Would you like a free Google Voice account? It can block companies like this from not only calling your cellphone but also your landline and work numbers. See my post on whocallsme by doing a reverse number lookup for 7024381678-setup instructions as well as I remember them are included with references to further assistance if needed.

This guy called my phone 15 times in a row today, and called my work 20 times throughout the day. He is stating that I have a pending lawsuit against me, and he is from CashNetUSA. He has all of my pertinant information, including DOB, SS#, Address, Bank Account # and Routing #. BEWARE OF THIS SCAM! I have already contacted my bank, my local sheriffs dept and am going to contact my local Attorney General's office tomorrow. This man is saying his name is Luke Martin.

please dont give this company any of your personal information. when I told them that did not want to get the loan that i had means of getting other funding. The following week they begin calling my job 3 to 8 times a day leaving messages and then being very rude to coworkers. Then he called back and gave another name and beging saying words that i dont want to repeat. They then made threats and began calling my job and hanging up.

This guy keeps calling for an Edmund Grey today i told the guy i don't know edmund and he said yes you do.  Then i hung up.

Print off this thread and give it to your employer:

This is an offshore payday loan debt collection extortion scam that has been going on for at least five years. The FBI is aware of it but is unable to go after those involved due to lack of money and manpower. I looked back and found some old information which may prove to be helpful:

They obtained your information through Teletrack:

Kudos to "Sam" for giving the most intelligent and informative posts on this scam. READ, Bookmark and use as needed:

http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-631-456-4041/2

I have been receiving phone calls from this group since late April / early May of 2010.  There is a good chance that they also attempted to contact me roughly two years ago before I entered into Chapter 7 Bankruptcy protection, as I faintly remember hearing the same script more or less.

As others have stated, the callers are difficult to understand.  Generally speaking their command of the English language is quite poor and their accents are hard to follow. At times they will get certain words or phrases mixed up.  It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that they had:

a) Your SSN
b) Your home address
c) Your work address
d) Your banking info
e) Names, numbers and potentially the addresses of "references"
f) A complete and total lack of ethics and a basic understanding of the FDCPA.  

I have personally filed reports with the following agencies, often with limited (if any) success:

Local Police
my state's Attorney General's office
FTC
FBI
Secret Service

Generally the local police won't be able to help much.  The callers are using a combination of prepaid cell phones and VoIP, making them difficult to trace.  Also at their disposal are various spoofing tactics being implemented to catch people off guard - meaning the number that appears on your Caller ID isn't the number that is calling you for starters.  Without gaining a subpoena for the billing information for the numbers in question, the local police won't be able to get very far.  

My state's Attorney General's office couldn't offer much assistance either.  I received a form letter in the mail that my complaint was received and I would be contacted if they needed additional info.  It was more or less the same information I obtained from the FTC.  They each advised me not to give the individuals over the phone any account information or to authorize payment.  That's just common sense, though.

I never got anything from the FBI, either.  There is a good chance that since I haven't suffered a monetary loss that my concerns are low on the totem pole.  I hate to say this, but that is truly the case. Unless you were in the hole for a $1,000 (or more) you aren't going to get much more than "sorry to hear about your situation, change your phone number and move on".  I seemed to get some activity from the Secret Service.  I spoke with agent Doug Zloto. (Google him, referencing threads like these plus his name and you'll find his number also)  He seemed to care a bit more than the average person, but after giving him access to my Google Voice account, there has been no further activity from him that I'm aware of.

In the meantime I changed the wireless number the fraudsters had access to, they have no direct way to get a hold of me.  (Calls at work have ceased for some reason)  That in turn resulted in my "references" getting phone calls from the crooks.  Here is a word of caution for women that have been getting these calls - don't say anything and just hang up.  The callers are quite abusive towards women callers.  Why?  Possibly the culture.  If they are Indian / Pakistani, women are second class citizens there.  You will be treated like garbage.  This happened to a family member when she was trying her best to be extremely nice over the phone.  

The callers currently attempt to reach me through the female family member and an unused Google Voice number that they managed to find of mine.  I keep the Google Voice number open because, well, I can't delete it yet.  So, about every day, 4-5 times a day for the last week, I get voice messages from them.  It's usually just two full messages though - the other calls are broken up with static or they are attempts to read the script until the callers then screw up.  Really, they are that adamant on getting the script 100% that they will hang up mid-sentence and call back 30 seconds later.  

At this point it's a stalemate with these people.  

1) While they have the lion's share of information on us, they can't really do anything with this information.  

Why?  Think about it.

If they were to ever take funds out of your account without authorization, it's fraud and worse (for them) it is traceable.  That's why they won't do anything with your information, contrary to threats they make.  The money from your account has to go somewhere, and either your bank or a law enforcement agency can determine where the money was routed.  As a bank customer you are protected - you'd get the stolen money back in your account after 7-10 business days and the bank would be temporarily out the funds deducted from your account while they conducted their investigation.  The bank, along with law enforcement, would track down the fraudsters and apprehend them.  The fraudsters do not want to incur the wrath of a bank, just extort money out of you.  Remember that.    

Your authorization would absolve the bank from any and all liability, leaving you holding the bag.  Never give them authorization for anything - for all you know the call is recorded.  

2) We have no information on them.

Seriously, this has been going on at least since 2008, possibly longer than that based on some accounts. (6 years??? Holy crap!)  You would think someone would have slipped up by now.  Sadly, they haven't.  We can continue to grow our own intel on them and compile lists of aliases and phone numbers used, along with paraphrases of scripts used in order to educate other victims.  I'm actually putting together a site now in the meantime where I'll host audio files and lists of previous numbers used.  800notes.com is great, but no two calls are exactly the same.  It would be nice to have a site dedicated to the scam and how it works.

So that's where I am with these calls.  I have suffered no monetary loss, though I have been harassed both at home and at work.  They threaten me with arrest and other "fun" things in order to get me convinced I have to pay them.  My friends and family have been targeted and local and federal law enforcement agencies haven't been able to put a stop to things.  So, it is what it is.  I am out a wireless phone number I had for roughly six years, which is terrible since I was using that line when looking for a new job.  

Whenever I'm bored I spoof my number using Google Voice and return the calls.  I've called them the poster children for birth control, etc.  Basically a lot of nasty things that I'm sure the moderators here wouldn't appreciate me repeating - bottom line nothing nice.  I always like to close saying their parents must be real proud knowing their sons weren't man enough to get real jobs.  That usually gets a decent response.  

Way I see it - they can't do anything to me. (Despite a threat yesterday that my life would be f'ed up)  They can threaten all they want but my credit is frozen and my bank information has changed.  I've changed the only number they could really access me directly on and I've instructed my employer and family to not answer the calls.  I just call and harass them now when I find a few extra seconds.  What's the worst they can do to me?  Charge me with harassment?  

Nope, then they would have to identify themselves.

Oh, and don't bother contacting Cashnet USA about the calls.  Their "fraud" department could honestly care less.  Their "investigation" is merely a means of buerocratic CYA.  I would even be surprised at this point if actual law enforcement is involved in any shape, way or form at this time.  

There is a good chance that the information these crooks have on us was obtained from Cashnet USA - either from a database leak or from a collector that was once authorized by Cashnet to call on delinquent customers.  The other chance is they have access to Teletrack, and pulled all of our information off of there.

http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-646-274-1143/3

For at least the last four years, possibly longer, a group has been calling former payday loan applicants advising them that they have defrauded a bank and are now being sued for non-payment of a loan.  The callers will claim to be calling on behalf of an attorney's office (name varies), the Dept. of Law and Investigation, ACS, or other similar combinations below:

United Legal Processing Division
Midline Marketing
Crime Monitoring Services
Monetary Crime Division
U.S. National Bank
Attorney General?s Office (usually in California)
American Legal Services
Affidavit Consolidation Services (ACS)

You will be threatened with arrest, a costly trial and possibly worse.  In no shape, way or form can you be arrested for non-payment on a consumer debt.  Do not believe these threats, as they are without merit and cannot be carried out in the manner they allege.  

Who are they?

In the past when pressed by law enforcement for an address, the callers have provided the following information:

David Morgan and Associates
Morgan & Associates
Morgan Associates
954-727-8481
1155 Northwest 85th Street
Wintergarden, Florida  33150
(Address is likely invalid)

The collector's MO matches a once legit collections agency called Ellis Crosby & Associates.  Here are some links on them:

http://www.budhibbs.com/collectorpages/ellis_crosby_and_associates.htm
http://www.budhibbs.com/collectorpages/EllisCrosbyJudgment.pdf

They have been previously fined over $1.3 million for various violations.  They have been known to use phone banks in India to make their calls, which more or less coincides with the difficult to understand accent many of us detect when we are contacted.  

The last time this group went by any "official" name was back in 2008:

Ellis Crosby & Associates / Douglas & Morgan Associates
4494 Southside Boulevard Suite #200
Jacksonville Florida 32216
Phone:  800-928-3536 / (904) 928-3536
(Address is likely invalid)

There are NUMEROUS consumer alerts out against this group of individuals:

Florida:
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/061107/met_176207561.shtml

Kansas:  
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/01/ks_debt_collection.html

Colorado:  
http://www.coloradoattorneygeneral.gov/press/ ... lls_likely_orig

Rhode Island:  
http://www.collectionscreditrisk.com/news/rho ... -3002135-1.html

West Virginia:
http://www.wvago.gov/internetloanscam.cfm

Missouri:
On July 15th, 2010 a Public Awareness Bulletin was sent out by Missouri Information Analysis Center.  

"..received reports from individuals in Ohio and Illinois reference suspicious telephone calls they received. In both instances, the callers are reporting that a voicemail is received from a man, with a Middle Eastern accent, identifying himself as an officer working with the Financial Crimes Unit.  The message indicates that the reason for the call concerns a loan made by the receiver or someone in the receiver's family. The voicemail requests that a return call be made and a telephone number is provided. When a return call is made, the caller is asked to provide personal identifying information such as their date of birth and social security number.

Reports indicate that the calls are frequent and persistent and that they even threaten arrest or legal action if information or money is not provided. It appears that the individuals making these calls may have access to some records connecting individuals and their relatives.  Missouri does not have a Financial Crimes Unit and all indications are that this is a fictitious agency. If you receive a similar phone call, please be advised that it is a scam and please contact your local law enforcement agency or the Missouri Information Analysis Center at 866-362-6422."

Bottom line:

Do not supply the callers with any additional information.  Inform them you have reported them to law enforcement and hang up.  If you haven't already, go ahead and report the calls to local law enforcement, your state's Attorney General and beyond.  Look up the local Secret Service branch's information in your area and get in contact with an agent there.  

If you ever applied for a cash advance online, your information is out there.  
Possible sources for the breach of your privacy are:

* The scammers obtained your information from Teletrack - a reporting agency used by many cash advance lenders to determine their risk lending to you.  The service is able to tell cash advance lenders if you have existing loans with other companies, for example.  Many state laws prohibit borrowers from having more than two cash advances out at the same time.

* The scammers created their own fake payday loan application site.  People looking for a cash advance went to the site and applied, thus freely providing the scammers with their information for malicious use at a later time.  

* The scammers were able to get into the database(s) of cash advance lenders - probable targets being Sonic Payday and Cashnet USA.  


How to protect yourself:

* Inform your employer.  You are likely getting calls at home and/or at work, so make sure your employer is aware the calls are part of a scam and to not take them seriously.  Advise the callers that they are no longer allowed to call you at work.  If they continue to call, document the date and time of the calls you received.  Save voice mails left if at all possible.  

* Change your number(s).  For some this may not be an option, for others a one-time number change can be done free of charge.

Be advised - any references you listed on your payday loan application will be contacted.  Let those people know that this is a scam, and they can disregard.

* Use Google Voice.  Google Voice is a great replacement voice mail system for just about any phone number you use.  Messages can be transcribed and voice mail recordings can be saved as mp3 files.  

Pro Tip - call the scammers with a Google Voice number before turning off your old phone numbers.  Make sure when you call you identify yourself so they can start up their script.  At any point after they have your information pulled up just hang up.  They will then start religiously calling your Google Voice number.  At this point, you are free to change your regular phone number(s) and enjoy not having these people ever call you again.  (And laugh at the fact these people are basically talking to a brick wall several times a day)

The scammers change their numbers frequently.  Law enforcement used to think it was because the callers ran out of minutes on their prepaid wireless accounts or they were shuttered due to fraud, but now they understand it's simply to evade detection by savvy consumers online.  With the proliferation of VoIP, it's even easier for the crooks to stay a couple of steps ahead of law enforcement.  Below is just a sampling of the 30+ numbers that have been used in recent memory.

1-201-244-7722
1-209-349-7382
1-209-797-2212
1-212-500-0839
1-213-256-0408
1-213-995-3039
1-281-763-0433
1-347-289-3902
1-347-844-6817
1-347-844-6831
1-424-354-4270
1-516-232-8905
1-516-232-8935
1-518-212-0219
1-561-300-8018
1-561-210-4185
1-626-200-4646
1-631-456-4041
1-646-274-1143
1-646-810-8635
1-650-241-4604
1-707-401-4056
1-707-633-2789
1-708-401-0535
1-716-442-2824
1-717-862-4080
1-718-705-8669
1-760-514-0132
1-760-563-5384
1-772-318-4938
1-850-201-1111
1-858-777-1977
1-859-908-2281
1-866-860-4509
1-877-226-7488
1-888-706-7463
1-888-771-9249
1-888-785-4479
1-909-327-4870

So can they really do anything to you?

It's not a simple yes or no answer.  Logic dictates that, if they really wanted to take you for a ride and drain your bank accounts, they already would have.  

So, why haven't they?  

Authorization.  

Why do you think you are being called so much?  Perhaps it is because they like the sound of your voice?  No, they have to have your authorization to take any form of payment from you, period.  The callers know their audience, and that audience is typically a bunch of people that have applied for payday loans in the past.  Most of those people they call couldn't afford an attorney if they wanted one, and are so used to receiving collections calls that so long as they sound like a real collector, they will likely be perceived as one.

Furthermore, they don't even really want to talk to your attorney - that just sounds official and scary enough.  A real attorney would take the callers to task and write them off as two-bit con artists.  The callers need you, in writing, to authorize payment against the fictitious debt they claim you owe.  Go ahead, ask them for proof you owe the debt - more commonly known as verification of debt.  See what they say.  A phone authorization carries very little weight, so if they have something signed by you on file, you are done for - and the callers know that.  That authorization is the only thing these callers are doing by the book, and for good reason.  If they just went all willy nilly and made an ACH debit from your checking account, without your written approval, you could in turn report the transaction as fraudulent to your financial institution.  In about 7-10 business days, you would get the funds returned to your account.  Then the scammers would be up against a bank and their team of lawyers and investigators.  

Bottom line:

If you haven't paid the callers a dime, don't.  If you planned on paying them to shut them up, just don't.  Remember - you are not being contacted by a legally licensed, ethically owned and operated collector.  Read up on the FDCPA - http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre27.pdf - and know your rights.

PS--The FBI sent out a Press Release on this scam just last week:

Extortion Scam Related to Delinquent Payday Loans

Washington, D.C.
December 07, 2010  FBI National Press Office
(202) 324-3691

? filed under: Press Release

The Internet Crime Complaint Center has received many complaints from victims of payday loan telephone collection scams. Callers claim the victim is delinquent in a payday loan and must repay the loan to avoid legal consequences. The callers purport to be representatives of the FBI, Federal Legislative Department, various law firms, or other legitimate-sounding agencies. They claim to be collecting debts for companies such as United Cash Advance, U.S. Cash Advance, U.S. Cash Net, and other Internet check-cashing services.

According to complaints received from the public, the callers have accurate data about victims, including Social Security numbers, dates of birth, addresses, employer information, bank account numbers, and the names and telephone numbers of relatives and friends. How the fraudsters obtained the personal information varies, but in some cases victims have reported they completed online applications for other loans or credit cards before the calls started.

The fraudsters relentlessly call the victim?s home, cell phone, and place of employment. They refuse to provide any details about the alleged payday loans and become abusive when questioned. The callers have threatened victims with legal actions, arrests, and, in some cases, physical violence if they do not pay. In many cases, the callers harass victims? relatives, friends, and employers.

Some fraudsters have instructed victims to fax a statement agreeing to pay a certain amount, on a specific date, via a pre-paid Visa card. The statement further declares the victim will never dispute the debt.

If you receive these calls, do not follow the caller?s instructions. Rather, you should:

Notify your banking institutions.
Contact the three major credit bureaus and request an alert be put on your file.
Contact your local law enforcement agencies if you feel you are in immediate danger.
File a complaint at www.IC3.gov.
Tips to avoid becoming a victim of this scam:

Never give your Social Security number?or personal information of any kind?over the telephone or online unless you initiate the contact.
Be suspicious of any e-mail with urgent requests for personal financial information. The e-mail may include upsetting or exciting but false statements to get you to react immediately.
Avoid filling out forms in e-mail messages that request personal information.
Ensure that your browser is up-to-date and security patches have been applied.
Check your bank, credit, and debit card statements regularly to make sure that there are no unauthorized transactions. If anything looks suspicious, contact your bank and all card issuers.
When you contact companies, use numbers provided on the back of cards or statements

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/paydayloanscam_120710

http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-951-489-0227

Was called by DFF. A guy named Micheal.  Didn't realize this was a scam.  I ended faxing papers, now trying to figure out what to do.  Luckily I did give them my banking information, gave them a prepaid card information.   Since I signed a paper what do I do? I am reporting th to the fbi

We got several calls from this number.

Talked to the same DFF collector today - I was able to get them to commit to an exact dollar amount they said I owed.  They would not give an exact date the "funds" were supposidly deposited to my account.  Only  said the month of June or July.  I was online looking at my stored statements and told them I did not receive any funds from them- He then said look in October's statement - I said look, you're fraud. You say you have so much "exact" information on me and you're going to take me and my boss to jail in handcuffs but you "can't" give me the exact date or month?  Problem guy - you're an extortionst I told him and hung up.  My phone hasn't rung since. Kinda worried they will start in on references or work becasue so far they haven't done that.

They are fraud

keep calling work every 2 minutes, michael and cameron; they're a scam

Wow...thank you for that info...been getting calls all day every day for almost a week now!!!

I would like to get information from this company calling me at work and calling my home phone .They have my social number my bank information  and other information said they would go on my credit record
They want 2000 for a loan i never took out Would like some help with this matter.

I r eceived a number from 804-318-5476  they said the name Jason and David de bt collectors also said states attorney and DFF for 2000 dollars I have not paid to Cash Advance . They have called under several other numbers also . Will give u no information about who they are the companies phone number they are representing so you can call them back and verify information. I also received calls from 310 area code and +011-234 or 011=233 NUMBERS. tHE POLICE SAID IT IS A SCAM BUT THEY HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT ME.

This number is calling me and calling my work and leaving messages.  Cameron Taylor is the guys name.  Its all a scam.  I called the police and I have added a complaint to the do not call list.  What else can we do?  Sick of those foreign guys calling me.  I have no clue what they are talking about.  I keep telling them to not call me and they are not getting any money

Same old scam, just a different number.  Don't waste your tme.  The old "past due payday loan" scam on the FBI website.

See:  http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/paydayloanscam_120710

along with hundreds of numbers on this website alone.

Hi,



I keep getting these calls about me committing some type of fraud from a foreign guy and about two weeks ago from an American. They allege that I have attempted fraud and legal action may be taken against me. I have not taken out a loan with this organization that they claim I have nor do I have any idea what they are talking about. They keep calling my family, my job and I have asked them to stop calling but they won't. I am livid, especially because my family freaked out when they called and now they are calling my job! I filed a complaint two weeks ago with the FTC and have placed a fraud alert on my credit report. I am sick of them! The callers name is Ben Rogers.



Thank you

michael called said from DFF and I owe $573.14 from soliciting porn which is a lie and i am in violation of federal banking laws and want to resolve this today if i pay the amount and wanted my bank information

I got a call from the same number and also from 704-712-2186 saying they are from DFF and it was a legal matter regarding a payday loan I took out from Cash Advance company and they are trying to collect a litte over $500 from me. They know the last 4 of my social, my bank account info, my home address and other stuff, but all of the loans I have ever taken out I have paid back. So we will see. Good Luck to you Laura, hopefully this is nothing