dont answer your phone when they call. i worked at a debt collection agency and they never take it any further unless you pick up the phone and talk to them.  they get their money by calling hundreds of thousands of people a day.  no answer note account move on to the next one.

I JUST ASKED THEM (ON SUNDAY - ???) SEND ME THE DOCUMENTATION ON THE DEBT.  BEFORE I COULD CONFIRM MY ADDRES....THEY HUNG-UP.  HOW MANY VIOLATIONS CAN THEY GET AWAY WITH-------BY THE WAY, THE DEBT WAS SETTLED WITH THE HOSPITAL

nice collector fl, I've disputed my bill and during the dispute the bill was turned over to collections, the dispute was that after admitting me to said hospital for 4 days the doctor walked in to tell me it wasn't my heart ( no s**t ) my complaint was chest pain but not that chest pain and when I asked what the problem was the doctor said " I don't know " that bill was over $9000 and I've still got the same problem, when I tried to explain the dispute to this collector their attitude is they'll get their money .

2nd visit never saw a doctor, a nurse asked what I was there for took my blood pressure and after 3 hours of sitting in the waiting room I got up and told a nurse to remove my name I was done waiting they wanted $300 to ask me a question and take my blood pressure .

It amazes me how a collection agency that buys these debts for pennys on the dollar ( which lets face it if the hospital charged you what they were willing to sell the debt for more people would pay their bills ) and has absolutely no idea of the situation will draw conclusion and treat someone as a deadbeat without any real proof that the bill is legit.

I've already taken 2 collection company's to court and in the end they got to not only pay those assumed bills for me but they also had to pay me for their neo-nazi tactics and if your in FL you know that the collection laws are on the side of the people, not the debt collector .

I went to the hospital to get a liter of saline and a pain killer.  I had a kidney stone.  I've had them before.  The problem is, when you get dehydrated, the pain increases, you get nauseous and you can't keep down fluids necessary to pass the stone.  A liter of saline (sometimes two) is all that's needed to flush the stone out.  The pain killer is nice to have, but not imperative.

The saline costs less than $10 retail.  The pain killer is less than $1.  After waiting more than an hour, I got the saline and the pain killer and passed the stone within 45 minutes.

I would have been willing to pay the doctor $500 an hour (though the doctor did nothing but agree  with my diagnosis and prescribe the treatment).  I would have been willing to pay the tech who administered the IV $200 per hour.  I would have been willing to pay triple for the saline and pain killer.  And I would have been willing to pay $100 per hour for the room I was in (but not for the time I was waiting.  It was shift change, and they clearly considered that more important than treating a patient.  It's not as if they were busy... there were only two other patients... one appeared to be a mental case and the other was some sort of hand injury that came in as I was leaving).

Altogether, at those rates, my bill would have been about $210.

The hospital wanted almost $5000.

Anyone wonder why I'm NOT going to pay the bill?

If you receive a collections call from this number, you may want to connect with someone inside the company to let them know you do not appreciate the call. While not advocating filling up the persons voice and e mail with garbage, here is the contact information:

FCA Director
Education Chair
Matt Kiefer


Professional Collections Systems
900 Winderley Place, Suite 1000
Maitland, Fl 32751
Tel: 407-571-1600 E 215
Matt.kiefer@flhosp.org

I've received 10 phone calls and messages from this place.  I've called them four times to have them stop and they keep calling.

First, we called the hospital, told them that we lost our jobs, told them we had no money.  Then got calls from a collection agency, told them we lost our jobs and did not have money, we wrote them a letter explaining our situation. Then we get a letter from an attorney, wrote to them stating that we lost our jobs and to delete our names from all calling lists because we have no money.  Calls stopped for awhile.  

Now, we are getting calls from a caller ID of Maitland FL 407-571-1500 leaving a message that they are a collection agency, etc?  This is in violation of the letters we already sent!  Forth establishment ("Professional Collections") is trying to collect money?  They say collection agencies pay pennies on the dollar for these alleged debts.  Hospitals and Doctors agree to accept certain amounts of money from the insurance company.  I paid my deductable.  

It comes down to food on the table or a bill ... do the math!  I did not ask to be laid off from my job!  I did not ask for the economy to be in the toilet! I have sent out 300 resumes trying to find work with no luck!

Believe me, I would rather have a job and pay alleged bills than to be in my situation.  Mr. "Nice Collector" ... (800notes) if you were so "nice", you would put yourself in the shoes of the person who can't put food on their table ... that would be "Nice" ... I am sure you mean well and you need to put food on your table as well - but in these economic times.   Think of one of your family members being in this position!  

How many people have committed suicide or attempted suicide because the collection companies continue to harass them?  Do you know what it is like?  I'm here to tell you that due to all of this stress, I am depressed.  I don't know how I will feed my family - and you are adding this type of salt to insult every time one of the collection agencies makes a "nice" collection call!  

As for sites like this, when someone gets an unknown name, we have the right to know who is calling us!  This is how many of us find out what vulture collection company is harassing, bullying, intimidating, stalking and otherwise making our lives miserable. Perhaps you would know what it feels like if everyone were to call your number 8 times a day?

Check out what others have posted on the following websites:  800notes website, phoneowner.info, callercomplants.com, callferret,com and the whocallsus.com.  Remember to file a complaint with the do not call registry.

These people have threatened me with attorneys and jail. it is agme on two can play this game they are messing witht he wrong person. i have a lot of free time and i am mentaly unstable they all should be scared in that office cause know i now where they work.

Got a call from Pro Collection Systems at 407-571-1600 telling me to call 800-404-9536.

Good. But, don't stop with the FTC. You might be interested to know (despite a previous poster's assertion) that the Do Not Calls DO apply to debt collectors if they persist in harassing the wrong person---and you can take them to court and sue them under the TCPA and FDCPA laws, like this
gentleman did with NCO, another debt collector:

Generally, the TCPA does not apply to debt collectors making collection calls to debtors. However, if you are subjected to calls from a debt collector and you are not the debtor, you may file a lawsuit against the debt collector under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) and the TCPA.

This right was recently recognized by Judge Legrome D. Davis in a case called Watson v. NCO Group, Inc.  NCO Group is a debt collector that uses automated prerecorded collection calls.  In this case, Mr. Watson alleged he was getting hundreds of calls from NCO Group after he got a new phone number. Mr. Watson claimed he owed no debt to NCO Group, Inc.  Mr. Watson filed suit under both the FDCPA and TCPA.

David Israel, defense lawyer for NCO, argued that the TCPA should not apply to debt collectors.  Judge Davis rejected the argument made by David Israel. The judge ruled that Mr. Watson had a right to sue NCO Group Inc under the TCPA for $500 for each call.  Judge Davis wrote;

[The] Court is convinced that a non-debtor's rights are in fact violated when he is subjected to repeated annoying and abusive debt collection calls that he remains powerless to stop.

Judge Davis' ruling was based upon his interpretation that collection calls to non-debtors violate the privacy rights provided by the TCPA.  

So what can you do if you receive "wrong number" calls from debt collectors?

1. Sign up for the Do-Not-Call registry.
2. Save the calls captured by your voice mail or answering machine.
3. Contact a consumer lawyer.

http://consumerlawyer.typepad.com/blog/2008/02/the-do-not-call.html

Collections
TCPA: What Is It & How Does It Affect You?

The Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 (TCPA) does many things - including prohibiting debt collectors from calling your cell phone without your permission. Each unauthorized call could result in the debt collector paying you up to $1,500. Here's some helpful information on the Act and how it might affect you.
What is the TCPA?

The TCPA, which was signed into law in 1991 under the first Bush Administration and codified under 47 U.S.C. 227, prohibits calls using any automatic telephone dialing system or artificial or prerecorded voices to:

?Emergency telephone lines
?Telephone lines of any guest room or patient room at a hospital, health care facility, elderly home or similar establishment
?Telephone numbers assigned to paging services, cellular telephone services, specialized mobile radio services, other radio common carrier services or any service for which the called party is charged for the call
?Any telephone call to a residential telephone line
?Send unauthorized faxes
The only way that a caller won't violate the statute is if express consent has been given - and violations of the TCPA are steep. An unintentional call carries a damage amount of $500; an intentional call carries a damage amount of $1,500. That's per call and regardless of the purpose of the call. In other words, if they call you using an automated dialing system without your consent, they've violated the Act and you are entitled to damages.

How does it affect you?

Most debt collectors use automatic telephone dialing systems to contact debtors. You'll recognize this when you go to pick up the phone and there is a slight hesitation on the other end. In fact, most debt collectors are calling nearly 100 people at a time just waiting for someone to answer. Although many have stopped calling landlines, cell phones are another story. Since more and more people are using cell phones either instead of, or in addition to, traditional landlines, debt collectors are finding their cell phone numbers using skip tracers, calling them and hoping that they don't realize that the TCPA has been violated.

http://bankruptcy-law.freeadvice.com/collections/tcpa_how_it_works.html

Got a call today from this company demanding to speak to Mike Sheffield. I told him that no such person lives here. He responds by saying you must be Mr. Sheffield. I say that I am not and am getting upset with this guys rudeness. He then tells me that this is my last chance to pay my long overdue bill. I ask "What Bill?" He claims it is for a company that I have never heard of. So I tell him that I never heard of that company. He tells me that I am lying and again says this is my last chance. I tell him that I want to speak to his manager. He tells me that he is the manager. I tell him that I want his mailing/business address and a number to contact the so called creditor that I owe. He told me to "stuff it" and hung up. I am reporting them to the FTC,

I  just got a call from these dudes. Left a message on my cell phone. I have told them repeatedly that the old delinquent account was paid off and to stop calling me. But the calls continue. The guy who called me today sounded like he was on drugs - so monatone, so quiet and so canned. But he continued to tell me that I would have to pay and that this company has already reported this negatively to my credit report.

Got news for you pal. You are going to get sued.

And as for nice collector and  his stupid comments, isn't it obvious that he is a paid company stooge trying to save  his job and justify his disgusting existence? Settling this is easy. Call the main compnay or creditor and let t hem know what is going on. They will cease any further conenctions with these ripoff outfits and get a lawyer. When t hese lying scumbags get sued enough and enough money is taken out of their pockets, perhaps then they will show respect to people like you and  me.

I mean these guys work for minimum wage, can't even talk and want to act like they are so powerful. WHAT CRAP!!!

i just looked on my credit report and found that i somehow owe $350 to this company, ive never been to the doctor or hospital since i was a teen, besides the time i got hurt at work and had to go to the hospital wich was supposed to be covered by employer. i dont know why i got billed but now my credit is shot to s*** and im not sure what steps i should take to fix the situation..

Professional Collection Systems was just sold and many of their employees are being laid off.  I have been dealing with collection companies for nearly 30 years and have found that when you get directly to the point and tell them what your going to pay each month and don't budge, it ends up working.  I have a budget that I have to stay within and I have helped many people also accomplish this as well.  I only get 1 call a month from PCS in the afternoon so I can make a payment for my daughter's account in the amount of $25.00.  It is true that they do lower some of the accounts, but they will do that while you are paying it off.  My daughter had 10 different accounts and so far, she got a break on at least 5.  Sometimes you will get a snotty collector, that is when I hang up and start all over.  I found one at PCS that is a jewel named Jerryica at extention 227, so anyone having problems right now, call her immediately so she can help you set up a payment plan as she is one of the ones being laid off next month.  

If you prefer not to get phone calls, then you will have to put that in writing and send it to the collection agency.  Make sure you put your phone on the government's do not call list for those times when you get calls from collection agencies regarding other people you don't know.  After you inform them that you are not this person and that you just got this phone and you are on the do not call list, if they continue to harrass you, you will notifiy the do not call list.  They can be fined.  Make sure you ask for their name and then ask for a supervisor.

I have actually had a collection ageny hang up on me.  I always keep calm, but assertive.  No matter what, never use bad language or raise your voice, just out think them.  And always ask them to send you written proof, especially if you doubt the validity of their claim.

Live in Ireland. Letter arrived to day saying I owed 715 dollars. Dont know anything about it. Rang straight away 4 times from ireland. all I got was voicemail. Also sent 3 emails &1 fax. Waiting on reply. i wont be paying this, I did have medical bills while on vacation but these were all paid in full by my insurance company including a payment by me when I was leaving hospital

Chris Smith  (EXT 205) send a letter to me for collecting money. I had a travel insurance from IMG which fully covered my account. IMG has claimed the original creditor F/H Orlando International

4-13-10
Todays call from 407-571-1600 at 4:49p was made by a female who said, ?George Perez, Hello? at which time I hung up.  The number is registered to Professional Collection Systems in Maitland, Florida.  They have being calling since Octiber, 2009 looking for Domingo Santiago or George Perez, two people unknown to me.  They have been told that no one by those names is at my address and they have been told to quit calling.

Here is a list of earlier calls with the numbers from which the call was made. Today's call is listed last.

1-28-10, 1:13p, from 1-800-404-9536
2-3-10, 4:54p, 1-800-404-9536
2-5-10, 11:07a, 407-754-3909
2-9-10, 2:39p,  1-800-404-9536
2-17-10, 12:04p, 407-571-1600
2-18-10, 2:53p, 1-800-404-9536
2-24-10, 10:19a, 407-571-1600
3-1-10, 12:37p, 407-571-1600
3-3-10, 9:59a, 407-571-1600
3-3-10, 10:37a, 407-571-1600

3-4-10, 10:02a, 1-443-451-3816 (Acceleral Corp.)
3-5-10, 12:45p, 407-571-1600
3-11-10, 3:51p, 407-571-1600
3-12-10, 10:49a, 407-571-1600
3-15-10, 11:34a, 407-571-1600
3-23-10, 12:34p, 407-571-1600
3-26-10, 9:10a, 1-800-206-3073 (Holloway Credit Solutions, Montgomery, Al)
Holloway Credit Solutions (HCS), established in 1900 and headquartered in Montgomery, Alabama, provides collection services, delinquent debt services, medical billing services to businesses across the United States.
3-25-10, evening, 1-800-206-3073
3-29-10, 3:54p, unknown-claimed to be FBI
3-30-10, 11:11a, 407-571-1600

4-5-10, 11:33a, 407-571-1600
4-13-10, 4:49p, 407-571-1600

I have had my number for 30+ years.  They have been told to "stop calling."  They have been reported to the DonotCall.gov registry many times.  They have been reported to FTC twice and the Attorney Generals Office, which referred me to the Office of Financial Regulation (OFR) who has taken the responsibility for telephone harassment.  So far, four different numbers have been used-all listed above by PCS.

PCS continues to call after repeatedly being told to stop since neither Domingo Santiago nor George Perez is at my number.  This is harassment.  If they are excluded from the DonotCall legislation, then we need more teeth in the law.

3-3-10
Two calls today  from 407-571-1600 at 9:59a and 10:37a. These calls were recorded messages.  The first instructing me, ?to hold for an important business call.?  The second message reads a disclaimer then asks for George Perez.  Here is a list of earlier calls with the numbers from which the call was made.

1-28-10, 1:13p, from 1-800-404-9536
2-3-10, 4:54p, 1-800-404-9536
2-5-10, 11:07a, 407-754-3909
2-9-10, 2:39p,  1-800-404-9536
2-17-10, 12:04p, 407-571-1600
2-18-10, 2:53p, 1-800-404-9536
2-24-10, 10:19a, 407-571-1600
3-1-10, 12:37p, 407-571-1600
3-3-10, 9:59a, 407-571-1600
3-3-10, 10:37a, 407-571-1600
3-4-10, 10:02a, 1-443-451-3816 (Acceleral Corp.)

I have had my number for 30+ years.  They have been told to "stop calling."  It does not help.  They have been reported to the DonotCall.gov registry many times.  So far, four different numbers have been used-all listed above.

This is a post left on a different web site related to the 800 number listed above.  It gives some details about the caller.

Called them back.  Professional Collection Systems is located at 900 Linderly Place (unsure of spelling, got a recording), Suite 1000, Maitland, FL 32751.  Hours 8:00 am. to 7:50 p.m. Monday through Friday.  Fax number 407-571-1616.  They specialize in medical collections and pissing me off.

3-4-10
Acceleral Corp. (according to the caller ID) called at 10:02a from 1-443-451-3816 and asked to speak to Domingo Santiago this time.  The caller was told there is no one by that name here.  She said she would not call again-I bet!  I am sure it is a front for PCS.

Professional Collection Systems

Below is the listing for Professional Collection Systems, a collection agency in Florida.

Address: 900 Winderley Pl Ste 1000
City: Maitland
State: FL
Zip: 32751-7231




First, file a complaint with the FTC under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 U.S.C. 1601, et. seq. Section 806 of the FDCPA prohibits "any conduct the natural consequence of which is to harass, oppress, or abuse any person in connection with the collection of a debt." The "any person" and "in connection with" parts are interpreted pretty broadly, and you don't have to be the "consumer," i.e., the individual holding the debt, to be protect by section 806. Specifially included as a violation of that section is "[c]ausing a telephone to ring or engaging any person in telephone conversation repeatedly or continuously with intent to annoy, abuse, or harass any person at the called number."

Also, many states have passed mini-FDCPA's, prohibiting similar conduct under state law. Find out how to file a complaint with the appropriate agency in your state. In New York, the Department of Consumer Affairs is responsible for enforcing the state Consumer Protection Law, which includes a section on debt collection.

Next, inform the debt collection company that you have filed complaints with the FTC and the applicable state agency. Let them know that you are aware of your rights, including the possibility of both civil liability and administrative enforcement under the FDCPA.
he U.S. Fair Debt Collection Practices Act governs debt collector's practices. This section only summarizes your rights under the law, and the law is always subject to change. Consult with ASU Student Legal Assistance to obtain detailed information regarding your rights.

A debt collector is a collection agency, a creditor using a fictitious name to collect a debt, any party collecting a debt for a third person, and companies in charge of repossessing any items obtained from a creditor. The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act covers only debt collectors.















































Professional Collection Systems

Below is the listing for Professional Collection Systems, a collection agency in Florida.
Address: 900 Winderley Pl Ste 1000
City: Maitland
State: FL
Zip: 32751-7231

You state to Google the ACA for legal info because it is a trade organization.  That in itself is bad advice.  Google the actual FDCPA.  Read it and get your legal info from there.  A trade organization is a company, too, and other companies (in this case, collection agencies) pay to become members.  If hundreds of companies are paying to be members, then the organization is going to be amenable to them.  In my opinion, you are giving biased information, as you seem to be posting to almost every comment.

Okay, "Nice Collector", I need to educate you a little more, it seems.  I also have been the person on the other end, harrassing people, trying to get money.  You state that this person has to write to the company to have them stop calling his/her cell phone.  THIS IS NOT TRUE!!  A collection agency is not allowed under the FDCPA to cause a debtor to incur subsequent charges after the initial debt.  This includes a cell phone charge.  If a person tells a collector not to call their cell phone anymore, then that collector has to take proper steps IMMEDIATELY to make certain that the cell phone is NEVER called again.  If you think that the debtor has to make this cease and desist request in writing, then you need more training/education before you get your company sued.  And yes, I was a trainer, so I DO know what I am talking about.  I quit the business because I got tired of it.  The collection agency business is just a big scam.

This miss elliot or robin watever her name called me today. she threatened me with an atoorney and told me that they were going to prosucate me and throw me in jail for 2,000 dollors. i am 18 years old no job in college with a husband and kid. i have had sever medical conditions and only have a short amont of time to live. This lady has no idea what she is dealing with. i know where the office is and have there phone numbers. ive also recoreded the phone call and filed a complaint with all the news companys. these people dont now what threatning and harrasment is unitl they meet me. i have all the time in the world. two can play this game so game is on. They will never get a penny from me. dont you think if i had insurance or money or a job i wouldnt be going to the hospital ugh duh. plus thats what good old goverment and taxes are for and what great old obama is taking care of. no one threatens me and gets away with it thats all i have to say

Check out what others have posted on the following websites:  800notes website, phoneowner.info, callercomplants.com, callferret,com and the whocallsus.com.  Remember to file a complaint with the do not call registry.

First, we called the hospital, told them that we lost our jobs, told them we had no money.  Then got calls from a collection agency, told them we lost our jobs and did not have money, we wrote them a letter explaining our situation. Then we get a letter from an attorney, wrote to them stating that we lost our jobs and to delete our names from all calling lists because we have no money.  Calls stopped for awhile.  

Now, we are getting calls from a caller ID of Maitland FL 407-571-1500 leaving a message that they are a collection agency, etc?  This is in violation of the letters we already sent!  Forth establishment ("Professional Collections") is trying to collect money?  They say collection agencies pay pennies on the dollar for these alleged debts.  Hospitals and Doctors agree to accept certain amounts of money from the insurance company.  I paid my deductable.  

It comes down to food on the table or a bill ... do the math!  I did not ask to be laid off from my job!  I did not ask for the economy to be in the toilet! I have sent out 300 resumes trying to find work with no luck!

Believe me, I would rather have a job and pay alleged bills than to be in my situation.  Mr. "Nice Collector" ... if you were so "nice", you would put yourself in the shoes of the person who can't put food on their table ... that would be "Nice" ... I am sure you mean well and you need to put food on your table as well - but in these economic times.   Think of one of your family members being in this position!  

How many people have committed suicide or attempted suicide because the collection companies continue to harass them?  Do you know what it is like?  I'm here to tell you that due to all of this stress, I am depressed.  I don't know how I will feed my family - and you are adding this type of salt to insult everytime one of the collection agencies makes a "nice" collection call!  

As for sites like this, when someone gets an unknown name, we have the right to know who is calling us!  This is how many of us find out what vulture collection company is harassing, bullying, intiminating, stalking and otherwise making our lives miserable. Perhaps you would know what it feels like if everyone were to call your number 8 times a day?

Shut up jack***

What a terrible foolish comment.  People shopuld stay away from a hospital if they cannot make payment arrangements?  This isn't a dress bought or  a fancy car.  The lack of respect your profession gets is in part because of comments and tactics like that.

Generally I have some sympathy for debt collectors because in many cases people buy things they can't afford but in this cae you are out of line.  NO one wants to go to the Hospital.  Worse in many cases  the hospitals HAVE collected significant payment from Insurance companies but are looking for more merely to pad the wallet especially wiht those $10 or $20 Tylenol pill charges.

[First Paragraph] Under FDCPA (Fair Debt Collect Practices Act) a collection agency can call you between 8am and 9pm unless THEY KNOW (and they don't unless YOU tell them) that it is incionvenient.  Same with calling your employer, the can unless they know it to be inconvenient (again YOU need to tell them this).

[Second Paragraph] You were ready to pay 60 days after you left the hospital (and you signed a legal contract to thuis fact before you were treated) and you are correct collectors have to stop calling if you formally inform them to do si (it is called Cease & Desist) but it will NOT stop you being reported to the credit reporting agencies or any legal action they may normally take against you.

Again you ar slightly right with the "bills" (actually they are statements) but again if you inform them of a C&D and they will stop, but guess what if another medical bill gets placed with them, it will all start again.

[Third Paragraph] You are correct. with an addition - even after you have iunformed them to C&D they are allowed one more communication under FDCPA to inform you of their intentions regarding the debt.

[Forth Paragraph] - You are right only slightly - Acceptable time is 8am - 9pm but you are totally correct it is YOUR time not the collection agencies time.  If they wake you up at 3am you can sue.

[Fifth Paragraph] You are totally wrong here - the "do not call list" does not affect debt collectors in any way at all - the No call list is for marketing calls - collection calls are not marketing and you entererd into a business agreement with their clients and you have defaulted on that contract (even if you are insured, you are responsible not your insurance company).

[Last Paragraph] - Very Bad Advice, dispite all you "armchair lawyers" that THINK they know, you dont, as shown above.  The collection agency and their clients have the law on their side.  They almost always win.  

Bottom line here - see ACA International (Google it) it is the tradfe association, thats the best place to find out what is and is not legal.

It IS the collection agency's fault if they are informed of having the wrong information and don't do anything to correct the matter, and continue calling the wrong number just for the sake of being annoying.

Its hard to believe that anyone would defend these parasites.

Just call and let them know that.  They have to remove your number.  And it's worth checking that you dont owe, or they have an incorrect bill that needs to be cancelled in your name.

Write to them (in case  like this) and give your roommates info and instruct the agency to remove your number from their calling list, the have to comply.  But bear in mind if someone continues to give your number then any new debt will just start the calling again.

In these cases it is not the fault of the collexction agency - it's your roomates.  He/She needs to be more responsible before they ruin your credit for you.

Maybe you have paid the hospital bill but did you pay the ER doctors or other physicians you used?

Check your credit rating, If this agency are right you'll have a bad debt registered against you.  If you paid it then you can sue them.  If it is a second (or third) bill then you need to pay it.

Call the agency at a quiet time for a better answer time (2pm) or call them and press option 8 and ask for a Manager.