I paid $640 on a $300 debt... Can I recoup the additional $$$ I gave these people?

Received vm on my office phone about a week ago from a Nicole Hopkins claiming to be from some Law Office.  I took the number down.  They called again on today, I answered, I advised them to cease and desist from calling me at the office.   She said she did not have to follow that and immediately demanded to be transferred to my HR I told her know.  We hung up and she called me at least 20 times in a row hanging up.  I called the number originally left on my vm and the man told me the same thing and he told me he did not have to honor it and he wanted to talk to payroll or HR and he would continue to call me all day and disrupt my work day.  Eventually they stopped, but always call from a blocked number b/c these crazies got the 1-800 from me calling them and got one of my co-workers and told him they were w/ the LA County Clerks Office.  So be careful about calling back is all I can say.

Caller left me a message to call them back but never stated who they were, just gave me a toll free #, an extension # (16), a case # and that it involved a "formal investigation".  The phone # that the caller called from came up on my Caller ID as "PRIVATE".  Also, could not understand the callers name as he was speaking so fast.

got a call from this company stating they were calling on behalf of an old payday loan, bout a year and a hlaf old, said they worked for an attorneys office, and if I did not pay them that day they would say I refused to pay and file a judgement against me. They would not give me any of their info, no address no fax number. Said they were going to send a jusgement against me to my HR department. I laughed. Under the fair credit laws, a creditor is not allowed to threaten to take you to court, first off. Second off, I called the place I owed the money to and they ddnt even assign the debt to a collection agency or attorney.

left a message for me to call regarding a formal complaint. Said he would release my file to my county if I didn't return his (extension 12) call within 24 hours.

Only a judge can garnish your wages. If the ORIGINAL creditor sues you, you will be required to appear in court. A judge will then decide an appropriate payment plan. A skeevy debt collector CAN NOT legally garnish your wages or your bank account against your will.

Don't worry. You can't go to jail for debts of any kind in this country. That hasn't happened here since civil war time. You can go to court and be ordered to pay by  judge. Only the original creditor can sue you. And the collection agents are not allowed to threaten you with actions they can't follow through with. It is a lie tht debt will get you in trouble for check fraud. And it is a lie that the police can come to your house to arrest you for this. If they call again, tell them that you know the rules of fair debt collecting (check it out here: ftc.gov) and tell them that if they continue to threaten you and use scare tactics, you will be forced to take legal action against them. (you have every right) Try to make this statement in writing, keep a copy and send it certified.

1800 841 4010 Has been calling me and leaving aggressive voice mails, which I still have. This guy so call Ronald Scott..... needs my debit card number to make payment arrangements for an old  debt. I would like to thank everyone for there comments.

No worries... just the desperate attempts that a money beggar uses when Fred Rock starts calling Judy Allen about production and nsf's ( declined payments)...

866-996-9926 also 800-841-4010 .... they are under investigation by the feds.....

Vrm group called claiming to be ryan brown from the social security admin. he said that someone had been
using my daughter's ssn and asked for her phone #. Do not fall for this lie these people are scumbags.

The VRM Group calls a number to get a hold of me that is unrelated to me and they call every other day multiple times a day. I just called the VRM Group and talked to a Denise that threatened me and said "If I don't pay the bill, they will not stop calling." They don't identify their company when you call the number and it sounds like you are calling someone personally and I am irate about the harassment.
C. Elliott

a return phone # received from VRM is 888-468-7810, and the call came through as "private" from a man calling himself Alex Westlake, Senior Client Liaison for VRM Group.
thanks for the helpful feedback on this forum

HOW COME U GAN GIVE ALL THIS INFO BUT DON'T GIVE YOUR NAME. I BET YOU MADE SOME NICE COMMISSION WHILE U WORKED THERE, RIGHT?????

I have been receiving calls from VRM for over a month now which is really annoying. I have never answered a call from them as I do not answer calls I do not recognize. I have simply let them go to voice mail. Today they left a message telling me that I had been named as a "person of interest" in a legal matter and to call them immediately at the following number 866-939-3388 or important legal decisions would be made without my knowledge. I called just long enough to get the name of the company, I then hung up and got online to do some research which led me here. Thank you for all the helpful information posted here. I will not be calling and speaking to anyone with this company after what I have read here.

I have a question for all you people complaining about these calls 'do you owe the money" ?

WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS ILLEGAL. THEY CAN NOT REPESENT THEMSELVES AS A LAW FIRM. YOU CAN GO TO FTC.GOV AND FILE A COMPLAINT, ENOUGH COMPLAINTS WILL CAUSE THEM TO GET INVESTIGATED AND EVEN PUT OUT OF BUSINESS

they're also calling from 866-239-9990 now. They doubled the amount owed and are threatening me with the local PD. They won't give their address.

We got a call from these ppl today asw well we didnt answer because we were just told today by a company trying to help us fix our credit NOT to answer calls from these ppl.

We have learned alot since undergoing credit repair, the threats are illegal and if you do try and negotiate with these ppl record the call dont tell them your recording the call but do so.

Now the laws are different in every state we are in Texas so you need to see what the laws are where your at.

In Texas they can NOT garnish our wages etc like they threaten too nor have we seen then take these things to court over payday loans.  I am glad we got this education on credit issues.  Knowing your rights is your best defense.

Best thing to do is DO NOT validate the debt that means DO NOT give them personal info or validate the debt saying yes I owe the money. My advise is to seek out a legitimate credit repair agency they are alot of help and there are those who are legit yes it will cost you money but its been worth it!!!!!

I got a call from these people and before I looked into it. I called and gave them my cc information for a thousand dollars. Now I'm worried.

Hi,

I too have been getting these calls from someone at VRM...and I actually returned there call and was told that they would turn over my case to the Los Angeles County Sheriff dept for fraud and that I am going to be getting something at home tomorrow and they were so rude. They wanted me to pay almost 1000.00 thats almost 3 times what I owed to Cashnet. I explained to them I lost my job and had closed my bank acct cause I had no funds but that I have a partime job and could pay 25.00 a month and they wouldn't have it. They were like no you have a 3 or 6 month term and thats it. I was like well I can't afford those kind of payments so take my payments or don't! And he told me well you in no spot to be telling me what you can afford I am telling you what we will take or you will get in trouble for check fraud! I was getting scared but I told him you know what then DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO cause you can't take blood from a rock! I told you I can pay 25.00 a month and thats it! He got mad and said I would get something tomorrow at home, I didn't even hear what he said would be coming to my house....:-( cops maybe to arrest me? :-( I am scared cause they were really mean. I did not intentionally NOT pay...I lost my job and I had to pick and chose what to pay. And as time went on I just didn't think about it anymore. And thats what I told him when he asked why I didn't pay. I don't know what to do cause I don't want to go to jail I have a 2 and 3 yr old that need me and a job.

I got a call from them and told them I wasn't available to see who they were.  They announced themselves as VMR group and indicated that the "file" in their office was about to leave for Harris county (well I'm not in harris but whatever) so if I recieve a summons, that's what its about.  It would be in "her" my best interest to call back before COB.

Whatever.  They can kiss my a@@

NO!
What they are doing is ILLEGAL (making threats to call family, friends, your employer, as well as legal action which they have NO intention of taking), if you don't return their call.

This outfit has been sued by the NY State's AG's office for deceptive collection practices and is in violation of Cuomo's COURT ORDER, directing them to clean up their act:

ATTORNEY GENERAL CUOMO ANNOUNCES REFORM DEAL WITH THREE NY DEBT COLLECTION COMPANIES OVER DECEPTIVE TECHNIQUES
Companies to pay $245,000 to state for violating state and federal debt collection laws, must provide easily accessible consumer complaint forms through company Web sites
~
Latest action in Cuomo's ongoing probe into unlawful debt collection and settlement practices


ALBANY, N.Y. (June 2, 2009) - Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo today announced that his office has reached an agreement with three New York debt collection companies that failed to adequately supervise employees who engaged in deceptive and fraudulent methods to collect debts.

The three companies, Creditors Interchange Receivable Management, LLC, Capital Management Services, LP and Tri-Financial, LLC, have agreed to substantially reform their business practices in order to be in full compliance with the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and New York?s Debt Collection Procedures Act. The companies, which are based in Western New York but do business across the country, are also paying $245,000 to the state in penalties and costs.

?We will continue to investigate the myriad deceptive practices that debt collection companies, debt settlement companies and others employ as a means to exploit consumers who are already down on their luck,? said Attorney General Cuomo. ?These three companies have agreed to immediately stop these practices and reform their policies to ensure their collectors comply with both state and federal law. I call on other companies engaged in the business of debt to do the same.?

According to complaints received by the Attorney General?s Office, collectors at the three companies employed fraudulent tactics in an attempt to collect debts, including:

Contacting alleged debtors without a lawful justification for doing so and even after being asked in writing to cease all communication
Contacting consumers at their places of employment even though the collectors were aware that such contact was prohibited by the consumers? employers
Discussing consumers? debts with third parties (i.e. employers, neighbors, etc.), and doing so even after the third party told the company to cease such communications
Falsely claiming that the company was acting on behalf of an attorney and that the company or a creditor was about to commence legal action against the consumer
Failing to respond to consumers requests for debt verification
Under separate settlements with Attorney General Cuomo?s Office, the three companies have agreed to enhance their compliance protocols and make it easier for consumers to file complaints against individual collectors. All three companies must create a direct link on their respective Web sites to consumer complaint forms. The companies must also maintain an employee disciplinary history database, as well as a comprehensive database of all complaints made by consumers or third parties who were wrongly contacted by collectors.

For the violations, each company must pay penalties and costs to the state.

Tactics prohibited by both the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, the New York State debt collection and consumer protection laws include: posing as an attorney, threatening lawsuits or other legal action which cannot be taken, saying a consumer committed a crime or will be arrested and talking with third parties except to get location information. The law further requires collection agencies to send a written notice within five days of initial communication with the consumer explaining how he or she can dispute the debt. If properly disputed, the collection agency must stop all collection attempts and send verification.

The settlements announced today are part of a larger investigation by Attorney General Cuomo into unlawful debt collection practices. Last week, Attorney General Cuomo subpoenaed nearly twenty companies and law firms operating as debt collectors throughout the state. His office also shut down two collectors for threatening and intimidating consumers into paying debts that they did not owe. In early May, Attorney General Cuomo announced a lawsuit against two debt settlement companies for fraudulent business practices and false advertising by selling misleading debt settlement plans that very rarely deliver the promised benefits to consumers dealing with debt.

Cuomo also launched a website - www.NYDebtHelp.com - that explains consumer rights, allows victims of debt settlement companies quick access to the Attorney General?s office to file complaints, and outlines the stages of the Attorney General?s investigation. These three cases were handled by Assistant Attorney General Dennis Rosen and Senior Consumer Frauds Representative Karen Davis under the supervision of Deputy Attorney General for Regional Affairs David Sampson and Assistant Attorney General in Charge of the Buffalo Regional Office Russell Ippolito.

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/media_center/2009/june/june2a_09.html

Contact Cuomo's office at: www.NYDebtHelp.com

So, I received a message on my phone from them.  Do I call them back?  They are saying they will continue to contact me via friends, family, and employment verification. They also state that I will be served a summons for legal action. I have never received anything via US mail from them so I'm leery about even returning the call.  Please let me know as soon as possible...Thanks!

Fax Number I just got for them is 716-821-9207

I used to work for part GM and after being laid off I took a job in collections. This company VRM group I used to work for. The information I am about to provide is to help people. I worked for this company for a short period of time to find out all of there illegal practices that they promote.
Be aware if this company calls you. Granite they are collecting on legitimate debts for the most part. There payday loans are legitimate, but there credit card debits they try to collect are usually in most cases are out of statute. By out of stat I mean they have been written off by the bank and they should be uncollectible but these people try to collect the debt anyways. Do not make a payment on these accounts because it renews the debt for 7 years. Most states the statute of limitations is 7 years but check your state laws. It goes by your last payment date. This company will try to collect them anyways. They buy these zombie debts usually for .0035 cents on the dollar and try to collect the face value. So if they have a $5000.00 balance they only paid $17.50 for that account. Ridiculous isn't it?
Another big law they break that you want to be aware of if you are dealing with them is they will add money onto the balance that you actually owe. For example if you owe a debt for $800.00 they train people to get the debtor on the phone and say they owe triple the balance in this case would be $2400.00. I never did this but have seen others take advantage of people. This is a total violation of the law and could be interpreted as fraud.
I plan to go to channel 2 news to report there illegal activity and I am in the process of writing a book that will help the average consumer. I have inside documents that supports and promotes there employees to break the law. I have been in this industry for three years and have a lot of knowledge to help the average consumer.
They will also look up your county and threaten to sue you if you don't make arrangements. That?s a lie they won't do anything.
I recommend not dealing with these people. If you do tape record all of your conversations with them. Soon VRM will be another boarded up building. Stand up for your rights and good luck.

They will refuse to give you there address if you ask them but it is:

There address is:
Vision Receivable Management Group
21 South Rosseler Avenue
Cheektowaga, NY, 14206

Hope this information is helpful.

Other phone numbers they use:
1-866-939-3388
1-888-444-9221
1-877-350-1514

to bad

Let?s read Mark 12:13-17 again.



Clearly, this incident was designed as a trap. The Pharisees and Herodians had conjured up a difficult question for Jesus: ?Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar? Should we or shouldn?t we?? There was no way out for Jesus. If He said ?No? He would anger the Roman authorities. If He said ?Yes? he would offend the Jews who hated paying taxes to the conquering Romans.



Jesus asked for a denarius. A denarius was a silver coin worth a day?s wages. Huge numbers of Roman denarii were minted, by various emperors, and many thousands still exist.



Who was the emperor when Jesus was born? Caesar Augustus. ?In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world.? (Lk 2:1). Who was the emperor during Jesus? ministry? Tiberius Caesar became emperor in 14 A.D. Luke 3:1-2 says, ?In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar? the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the desert.?



Jesus said, ?Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?? and the people answered, ?Caesar?s.? It could have been any Caesar if it was an old coin but it was probably the current Caesar, Tiberius,



The denarius of Tiberius, on one side, had his image. You can see the inscription. It reads: ?TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGVSTVS?, short for ?Tiberius Caesar Divi Augusti filius Augustus? which means ?Tiberius Caesar Augustus, son if the divine Augustus?.



On the other side is the image of a woman (generally thought to be Tiberius? mother, Livia) dressed as Pax (or Peace), holding a spear and an olive branch. The inscription is PONTIF MAXIM, an abbreviation of ?Pontifex Maximus?, meaning ?Chief Priest,? which was another of Tiberius? titles.



Jesus looked at it and said those famous words, ?Give to Caesar what is Caesar?s and to God what is God?s.? With absolute brilliance Jesus got out of their trap. They were amazed at Him!



Jesus didn?t comment on that inscription but it is ironic that they gave Jesus a coin declaring Tiberius to be the son of a god and the high priest. They were giving to Caesar what belonged to God. It is also interesting that these people carried such coins because some Jews refused to, on account of their having a man?s image on them. Their law said, ?You shall not make any idol or image of any created thing?.



Give to Caesar what is Caesar?s and to God what is God?s. Was that just a piece of cleverness that left them not sure whether he had said ?yes? or a ?no?? Or was it a principle that applies to us as well?



In the first instance, the question was about paying tax. What was Jesus? answer? Some things belong to Caesar (or to the government). You are not choosing to give a gift. You are under obligation to pay a debt. It actually belongs to Caesar. Give it to him. Caesar gave them the huge benefits of stable government. They were obligated to pay for it. The fact that they used Caesar?s coins showed that they owed a debt to Caesar. Jesus says we have an obligation to the state and to pay our taxes if we expect to benefit from the health system and the education system and the roading infrastructure etc. In fact, if we want a better health system, we may need to pay more tax, or actually pay the tax we are meant to!



Tax avoidance ? finding ways to pay less than is legally required ? is not an option for Christians. We have an obligation to pay what rightfully belongs to the government.



What else do we owe the government? Besides our tax, can I suggest we owe the government at least three other things ? obedience to the law, respect and prayer?



READ Romans 13:1-8



I know some people will resent the idea of submission to the government and will be saying, ?What about when the government is ungodly?? There are times when to obey the government would mean disobeying God, and in those instances we must put God first. However, if we are going to obey God, God says, ?Submit to the authorities. Do not rebel. Pay your taxes. Give respect. Give honour to the state authorities. Have no debt outstanding. Give to Caesar what is Caesar?s.?



Paul wrote this when Christians were beginning to experience persecution, but he still said, ?Honour the state authorities.? Likewise, Peter, wrote to Christians experiencing suffering and persecution:



1 Pet 2:13-17       Submit yourselves for the Lord?s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right?Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honour the king.



The shooting of a policeman is especially tragic and serious because he represents the government and authority. When police personnel put their lives in danger, for the sake of law and order, we owe them a debt and it is a debt we should pay ? a debt of respect and honour and co-operation for the police.



1 Tim 2:1-3          I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone? for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Saviour.



Prayer also is part of our responsibility to those in authority. We owe it to them. If every government is established by God, then with an election approaching we should be praying hard. Then, when there is no election, we are to pray for those whom God has put in power.



Jesus did say we have a debt to the state authorities and we are to pay that debt. But what about ?Give to God what is God?s?? What do we have that belongs to God and that we should therefore give Him?



Everything! Don?t we then have a conflict? If everything belongs to God, how can we say that some of it belongs to the government?



Everything belongs to God and because it does belong to God, He can say how He wants it used. As we have just seen, He wants some of it given to the government. Giving the appropriate amount to the government isn?t taking it away from God. It is using it as God wants. Likewise, God wants us to give appropriate amounts of our time and resources to other people. Our employers. We have a God-given responsibility to give our employers what is rightfully theirs, i.e. the time and effort they have paid for and the respect that is theirs as people in authority over us. Our families. We have a God-given responsibility to give the time and resources and effort to our families that God would have us give. Our parents, our spouses, our church leaders etc.



We easily get this out of balance. People focus on keeping rather than giving, or we give too much in one area and we rob another area.



READ Mark 7:9-13



God commanded that we honour our parents but the Pharisees and teachers of the law managed to avoid giving financial help to their parents by claiming that their resources were all dedicated to God. But see how Jesus says that they were using their traditions to break God?s commands. God wants us to give what is Caesar?s to Caesar, and to give what is our employer?s to our employer and to give what is rightfully owed to our parents, to our parents. Don?t claim to be giving that to God! It belongs to our parents.



So everything is God?s and everything is to be used as God directs, but are there some things that are to be given to God directly? When Jesus said, ?Give to God what is God?s? what was He thinking of?



We could make a long list but let?s mention a few specifics.



Our tithe. One tenth of our income belongs to God. If we don?t give it, we are holding onto what is not ours. It is God?s. In Malachi 3 God says to the Jews, ?You are robbing me.? They reply, ?How are we robbing you?? and God says, ?In tithes and offerings? Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse.?



Our lives. Our lives belong to God because He paid a price for them. The price was the death of His Son, Jesus. We cannot receive the salvation He offers but not give what God has paid for ? our lives.



1 Cor 6:19b-20    You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honour God with your body.



We are to use our bodies ? our actions, our time - to honour God. That is giving to God what is rightfully His ? because He has paid for it.



We could go on. We owe God our love. 1 Jn 4:19 says, ?We love because He first loved us.? It is a debt we owe Him. And if we owe Him our love, then we owe Him our obedience because Jesus said, ?If you love me, you will obey what I command.? (Jn 14:15)



Today, we have seen a demonstration of giving to God what is God?s. Alistair and Rachel have given their girls to God. What an incredible gift! In all likelihood they will continue to have the privilege or caring for them and raising them, but what if God asked them to give up a child just as He asked Hannah to take Samuel to the Temple? Alistair and Rachel have said that their children belong to God.



Do our children belong to God? Certainly, in the Bible, there is a long tradition of dedicating children to God, and of recognising that all we have belongs to Him.



Yet we can do that knowing that God is no man?s debtor. Jesus said, just two chapters before this incident with the Pharisees and Herodians, ?I tell you the truth, no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields?and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.? (Mk 10:29-30)



Alistair and Rachel can give Liam and Sophie and Alice to God with every expectation that God will give them back and will also give them the wisdom and skills and love to care for them and nurture them. And that God will give them many blessings through their children. God gives back more than we give.



Clearly, in our society, many people are not giving as God wants ? giving the government their taxes, obedience and respect; giving their families what God wants families to have; giving their employers the full measure of what rightfully belongs to them. But above all, people are not giving God what is His. Many people give nothing to God.



As we consider Jesus? words, are we giving rather than keeping ? giving to the government, giving to our families, giving to God?



Secondly, are we balancing those responsibilities so that we are not giving to God what rightfully belongs to our families or giving to our families what really belongs to our employer? A mother with young children may not be able to give a lot of time to the church because God?s call on her life, at that stage, may be to give to her family. On the other hand, family shouldn?t be an excuse for not giving to God what is His. It is our responsibility to hear from God what He is asking of us in each area, and give it.

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I used to work for part GM and after being laid off I took a job in collections. This company VRM group I used to work for. The information I am about to provide is to help people. I worked for this company for a short period of time to find out all of there illegal practices that they promote.
Be aware if this company calls you. Granite they are collecting on legitimate debts for the most part. There payday loans are legitimate, but there credit card debits they try to collect are usually in most cases are out of statute. By out of stat I mean they have been written off by the bank and they should be uncollectible but these people try to collect the debt anyways. Do not make a payment on these accounts because it renews the debt for 7 years. Most states the statute of limitations is 7 years but check your state laws. It goes by your last payment date. This company will try to collect them anyways. They buy these zombie debts usually for .0035 cents on the dollar and try to collect the face value. So if they have a $5000.00 balance they only paid $17.50 for that account. Ridiculous isn't it?
Another big law they break that you want to be aware of if you are dealing with them is they will add money onto the balance that you actually owe. For example if you owe a debt for $800.00 they train people to get the debtor on the phone and say they owe triple the balance in this case would be $2400.00. I never did this but have seen others take advantage of people. This is a total violation of the law and could be interpreted as fraud.
I plan to go to channel 2 news to report there illegal activity and I am in the process of writing a book that will help the average consumer. I have inside documents that supports and promotes there employees to break the law. I have been in this industry for three years and have a lot of knowledge to help the average consumer.
I recommend not dealing with these people. If you do tape record all of your conversations with them. Soon VRM will be another boarded up building. Stand up for your rights and good luck.

They will refuse to give you there address if you ask them but it is:

There address is:
Vision Receivable Management Group
21 South Rosseler Avenue
Cheektowaga, NY, 14206

Hope this information is helpful.